Last night at the Presidential debate, Gov. Huckabee was asked to clarify his position on a comment he made concerning “submissive wives” at a Southern Baptist Convention. His answer, I believe, was heartfelt, sincere, and delivered with the unashamed intentions of sharing the Gospel, but alas, did Huckabee get Eph 5:22-23 correct? Pastor David Shadday of St. Paul Lutheran Church in Indiana, believes Huckabee got it wrong. In my opinion, after relistening to Gov. Huckabee’s position, and the position of Pastor Shadday, I believe at the very best, Huckabee got some of it right and at the very worst, he missed the most crucial point of the passage: Christ’s love for the Church! If you didn’t get to watch the debate, here’s the clip:
Now listen to Pastor Shadday’s thoughts on Huckabee’s statement, and tell us what you think.
Planet Augsburg 
January 11, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Huckabee did not get it right, but I am not about to hold that against him. Indeed, I applaud the way he turned the question (clearly meant to trap him) around to talk about the loving relationship that is required for marriage. This was presidential debate not a discussion about headship in marriage. Huckabee was right to wiggle free from the trap.
January 12, 2008 at 12:04 am
I believe Huckabee nailed it. Christ answered His questions with wisdom to the ears that were open to ear. He often did not speak beyond that which would be beneficial and bring life to all. (I realize this statement could be debated, but show mercy to the context) Followers of Christ see the truth of Huckabee’s position, however we must not ask more exposition in response than is required to answer the question adequately to those inquiring his answer, as Christ often did as well.
The focus is not off, for example when Christ was sought on matters of divorce he answered the lost sufficiently, then they acquired more where He further expounded on the matter. If greater clarity was sought, then Huckabee should have continued in matters of husband/wive & Christ/church.
I find Huckabee’s answer, in the context of not instruction but defence of the gospel, brought worship in excellence to the position He seeks in obedience to God, Presidency. Where Christ might be worshiped as an authority found in Christ leads the Church, being Christendom, and our nation.
January 12, 2008 at 1:41 am
OB1-K and Caleb:
I’m not wanting to pick on Huckabee, and I’m not going to hang this over his head as a reason for voting against him. However, to our Christian brethren and those not yet enlightened by the Gospel, it is necessary to understand that there is more to this passage than a marriage “to-do list” as Gov. Huckabee would assert. He had a monumental opportunity to point his listeners and the other candidates to Christ, but instead, he preached on the “doing” (Law), when he had an opportunity to preach on what has been “done”, finished, and completed through Christ for us, His Church (Gospel).
Don’t get me wrong, as even Pastor Shadday said, Huckabee got the importance of marriage correct, but he put the “cart before the horse” like we all mistakingly do. It is only in light or in reverence of Christ’s sacrifice that one can do what Eph 5:22-23 requires. Therefore, what we do is in response to what Christ has already done for us. As scripture interprets scripture, we can look at Eph through Romans 11:32-12:1 (and vice versa), “I urge you therefore, brethren, by the MERCIES of God, to present your bodies as a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship”. How does one present themselves as a living and holy sacrifice to God? How does one not conform to the world? This, as Paul says is accomplished through the “mercies of God”. This clears up Eph 5:22-23, because in verse 21 we are told that it is in reverence to Christ that wives submit, and husbands love, and then Paul clarifies the reverence through the Gospel of Christ.
So with all of this said, I am dissapointed in Huckabee because he did not preach the “full counsel of God” (both Law & Gospel). What if his answer did hammer at someones conscience, and they were to see how they have dishonored marriage? Without the Gospel, that hypothetical listener has only two options. He could, like Judas, despair in his sin, “throw in the towel”, and dive further into perversions (Lawlessness). Or he could tamper with the yardstick of God’s Law and compare his marriage to others and say, “Oh, well at least I’m not like my neighbor who hits his wife”, now he has fallen into relative righteousness (Legalism). Marriage is to be seen as a blessing, but as Pastor Shadday says, without the Gospel that which should be a blessing, “is turned into a burden”, and Christ assures us that His burden is easy, and His yoke is light.
The great English Hymn write William Cowper put it like this in his Hymn, “Love Constraining to Obedience”:
“To see the Law by Christ fulfilled,
To hear His pardoning voice,
Changes a slave into a child
And duty into choice.
How long beneath the Law I lay
In bondage and distress
I toiled the precept to obey,
But toiled without success.
But to see the Law by Christ fulfilled,
To hear His pardoning voice,
Changes a slave into a child
And duty into choice.”
Indeed. Amen
January 12, 2008 at 5:03 pm
I can’t agree more with Caleb. As intricate and detailed as that Lutheran pastor explained the verse, we have to understand the context and aim of the debate question. It was not asked by a bright-eyed Sunday school class with pen in hand and open heart; rather it was molded and crafted by politicos at Fox news to undermine and attempt to attack Huckabee’s outspoken defense of such doctrines. He was not asked to defend the doctrine (if you listen to the actual question), he was asked if the position that “wives should submit to the servant leadership of her husband” was a viable position in the 2008 elections.
But with all you’re bashing that Huckabee’s not rightly dividing Law and Gospel, or properly interpreting Eph 5:22…at the foundation we should ask: Is he living it out? And I’d say (in addition to Ron Paul) he was the only one on the stage that was. McCain has been divorced, Rudy has been divorced numerous times, Romney thinks Christ is a brother of Satan…I mean, seriously?
I think you should start evaluating a proper distinction of Law and Gospel by the manner in which these candidates live their lives. And then, if you vote for McCain perhaps, we’ll see who is giving a stamp of Christian approval to confused Law and Gospel.
January 12, 2008 at 6:57 pm
Hank,
I can tell I hit a nerve, as the last paragraph I think was a personal shot at me. I’m willing to let that go under the bridge because I understand your emotional investment into Gov. Huckabee (and Ron Paul). I, on the other hand, have been a casual observer in these presidential debates, and like I have said earlier, that is the benefit of the primaries, you can critique the candidates, gather thorough information, and by the end, both the listeners and the candidates can see what needs to be fixed and who offers the best solution.
I’ve also said, that when the primaries are over, I will vote for the candidate who is pro-life and pro-marriage. If it should be Huckabee, then I’m going to vote for Gov. Huckabee. If Mccain, etc, if Giuliani, etc, if Romney, I won’t vote; or I might just have to write your name in the ballot. Hey, one vote goes a long way :)!
However, if Gov. Huckabee is going to talk of himself as the “Christian President” and the fact that he was once a Pastor, then he better talk about the work of Christ, and not his thoughts on his personal faith. St. Peter never talked about himself when preaching the Gospel, he talked about that which is solid and objective (Christ crucified). That has always been the problem with the “Moral Majority”. They are spot on correct about morality, but they never quite get around to preaching Christ crucified (the only means to truly change a heart). By the way, that one minute he spent cracking jokes and talking about his personal life at the beginning could have been used to add a more thorough explanation about the relation to Christ and His Church. So I stand by my comment that he missed the point, because that “point” (Christ) he missed is so crucial that I am shocked that so many people are giving him a “mulligan”.
I’m very relieved that Huckabee honors marriage and is pro-life, but I’m concerned that he is weak on crime (as his record as Gov. of Arkansas shows). I can’t count on my finger how many criminals he has pardoned on deathrow, to me, that is a sign that a person lacks an understanding of the duty one holds in acting out justice and protecting ones own children. An obligation that is necessary for being a good President. So is he “living it out” as you say? Am I even living it out? I don’t think so. I know of only one person who “lived out” the Gospel, and His name is Christ Jesus, and He came for sinners like me, and I dare not set aside the Grace of God.
As to my voting for McCain, I never said I was “voting” for him. I only said I am “leaning” towards him, which is a big difference. Honestly, I haven’t endorsed anyone yet. Thats why I am staying out of emotionally investing myself into one or two people, I don’t have to do that (another benefit to the primaries and living in the U.S.A).
So be careful about that “stamp of Christian approval” comment. I would never use my identity in Christ as a mouthpiece to coax anyone into voting for a particular person. I haven’t “stamped” anyone, and I am far from “bashing” Gov. Huckabee. I’ve never called him a name, I’ve never cursed the man, and if you would look at the first paragraph you would see that I even complimented him. What I have done, on the other hand, is raise my concerns (his criminal pardoning, his lack of knowledge on international affairs, my concerns that he might turn into a Jimmy Carter). I hope that clears things up. Perhaps, by the end of all this, there is only one solution….to be on our knees in prayer on behalf of all the candidates.
By the way, a big thank you to Brotherhank & Caleb, you are actually the first people not part of this blog to provide serious discussion on a post! So on behalf of the Planet, we solute you! š Keep those posts comin’!
Your friend always,
Catechismatic95
January 13, 2008 at 5:20 am
My main point, and I think the main point of Christian voting (or even “leaning”…lol) is a question of worldview, like we talked about a while back. Regardless of a pragmatic political stance on life and marriage, if a candidate does not have a cogent worldview, those stances are no more than hollow promises. The question is not primarily “Are they pro-life?”, “Are they pro-marriage?”…the question is “Why?”
If it’s not because of a Biblically principled worldview, then it is because of pure political expediency – which is what many politicians and even citizens unfortunately hold to.
January 13, 2008 at 8:20 am
Thank you for your comments. I have received them as edifying words to the body.
I believe where my primary disagreement began and still lies is Gov. Huckabees response and whether it shared all that was intended by the Spirit.
I agree with the statement he had not shared the full counsel if one looks to his response in judgment by the letter. Where I find his answer appropriate is in the perception as one who is found more in political and business positions where one must use great wisdom in his words.
I believe for Gov. Huckabee to continue into greater clarity of the word of the gospel would hinder his answer to the goal Christ has given Him, being elected President. His pursuit into answering beyond that which is asked, is a poor answer to a question, professionally speaking that is, and is often used by politicians to manipulate a question into a matter that was not addressed.
His testimony and belief in Christ is the greates profession he will hold to the gospel. As he is addressed with religious questions, I find a more concise answer addressing only that which is asked most appropriate.
Ultimately, I am sure he is content in how he answered it, but as a man of God I do not doubt he wish he himself had answered the question in a slightly tweaked manner where the Lord could have more clearly spoken His message of life through him as I myself often say, “I wish I had said this…or emphasized this….”.
Thanks for the beneficial discussion and may the Lord bless you and keep you.
January 13, 2008 at 8:47 am
Hank,
I’m 23 years old, I just graduated from college, and I’m living with my parents. I’m not a mover or a shaker. For every one good decision or kind deed I’ve ever done, I know of a thousand bad decisions which still haunt me. Right now, there are only two things I know for sure in my life, that I am a wretched sinner, and that Christ came to save people like me.
January 14, 2008 at 6:41 pm
Caleb, I think I might agree with you, and it really is great to hear from you.
Had he not mentioned Ephesians, I think I would have let the situation be as it is. At the same rate, I don’t dissuade people from voting for Huckabee, my main concern was that people would not get the wrong message.
January 14, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Whew, you guys are reading a lot in to this.
Let’s reflect for a moment: Huckabee is on a live nationally televised debate running for President (pressure cooker anyone?). He is just tossed what is more or less a live grenade in terms of the political explosiveness of the question. Was there any doubt what the questioner thought about the “submissiveness of wives”?
He misstated Ephesians a bit, but c’mon! The guy basically caught the live grenade, ate it, and burped out the smoke from the explosion (ala Bugs Bunny). I thought it was awesome.
January 14, 2008 at 7:46 pm
hahaha, you got me there! I confess I am a bit emotional when it comes to scripture. I have no idea how I would have answered that question, I’m sure I’d probably do this for 5 minutes, “uhhhhhhhh….hmmm…did I say that? Oh, I did….ooook.”. So the more I think I about, the more I realize that at times I can be way way overzealous without wisdom. So I’ll clarify more, my intention with the post was never to say, “Huckabee got it wrong” though thats what I ended up saying, and I shouldn’t have.
All I wanted to do was say, “Hey, there is more to Ephesians than the submission”. I promise, I was thinking more about the people who heard him talk, than about picking on him.
However, I still stand by the fact that he is soft on crime and weak on international affairs, if he wants my vote, he’s going to need to explain himself a bit more.
January 21, 2008 at 6:20 am
chuck Huck
January 21, 2008 at 10:44 pm
“Chuck Huck” haha is that a hybrid cross between Chuck Norris and Gov. Huckabee?
May 14, 2008 at 11:31 pm
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